In each issue of the Joe Rogan Experience, showman, comedian and martial artist Joe Rogan talks to a guest of the caliber that many television programs of large television stations would envy. This is possible due to the reach of JRE - this is the most popular podcast in the world.



On August 28, the legendary John Carmack peered into a studio in Los Angeles. Inside this post is a squeeze of 2.5 hours of ether.

About Joe Rogan

As a teenager, Joseph James Rogan showed interest in martial arts and even won major US competitions. The career of comedian Rogan began at age 21. The future star of standup required financial support, so in parallel Joe interrupted by more common professions: builder, driver, courier. As his fame grew, Rogan was invited to work on the radio, play roles on television and broadcast the Fear Factor. Fans of martial arts Rogan will be familiar as the host of the UFC.



Often, other comedians and martial artists are invited to record the Joe Rogan Experience podcast, but Rogan dilutes them with scientists, businessmen, and politicians. The JRE was visited by Ilon Musk, Jack Dorsey and Bernie Sanders, and with each of them Joe is able to maintain a full conversation. More often than not, Rogan allows expert guests to speak fluently; he only guides them with questions. The style of his work as an interviewer is unusual: he “softens” the interlocutor and finds common points with him, but does not then try to ask an uncomfortable question.



Rogan's interest in Carmack is particularly pronounced. Even in the nineties, Joe got hooked on Quake III Arena; he even drew a dedicated T1 line to his house with a monthly fee of tens of thousands of dollars a month. And the popularity of Quake and Doom games is closely tied to John Carmack's talent.

About John Carmack

Carmack is one of the pioneers of the gaming industry and just a talented programmer. He had a hand in Wolfenstein 3D, Doom, and Quake, one of the first-person first-person shooters, popularized several computer graphics technologies, and helped the open source community pretty well by submitting the idea to publish id game code.



Today Karmak is 49 years old, he is married, he has two children. But he remains active in the industry. He is responsible for technology at Oculus, a division of Facebook, where he is currently working on virtual reality systems. In parallel with this, he has his own Armadillo Aerospace rocket launch company.

About Oculus Quest

Usually, podcast guests do not come to the studio empty-handed, but for a specific purpose. A common situation is a conversation on a difficult topic, which is better revealed in the guest book, which recently appeared on the shelves. Political candidates campaign and introduce their program. Comedians and actors talk about their new tour of performances or record performances on Netflix.







Carmack brought a copy of Oculus Quest to the studio. This recently-launched virtual reality helmet is a compact standalone device; it does not require connecting to a computer or arranging sensors or cameras in a room. The electronics necessary for the helmet to work are already in it. So six years ago they saw the future of virtual reality, explained CTO Oculus: there are no connections; To move to the magical world, just put this device on your head.



A previous attempt to create a mobile BP system - Oculus Go - was more focused on the consumption of media content. Carmack said that even in the case of Quest, users often like to watch Netflix movies and TV shows in a helmet. He explained this by the possibility of having a beautiful home theater in virtual reality in any, even the most spatially cramped place.



With Quest, the player is free to roam the surrounding area. John and his colleagues spent a lot of time to protect users from falling from stairs and dangerous limb swings. This is a real danger - inside Oculus there were cases when the controllers broke. The system inside the helmet places a 3D map of the surrounding area, but the task of the safe zone lies with the user. With a sharp movement, the system predicts that the user will go beyond the game zone and displays a warning.



As a warning, the user is shown the real world. There are four cameras on the helmet, by which the helmet determines the position in space and tracks the movements of the controllers. These are low-definition black and white images, but that’s enough.



Some Oculus Quest users go outside and set up very large zones for games. The upper limit is set, although some game developers bypass and raise it. Carmack told how he liked the installation at one of the exhibitions: using Quest, the artist created a space in several rooms. John appreciated how pleasant it was to walk from room to room and climb into small channels - in ordinary computer helmets, the cable would interfere, and the signal from the wireless system might fade.

Why augmented reality is not widespread

We have a futuristic view of the future, where everyone has information displays in front of everyone, Carmack pointed out. The real limitations of modern screen technology spoil everything. Who wants to walk with a huge device on his head?



At the same time, everyone will agree to something like sunglasses with magical information abilities. But is there a space between the ideal and the current cumbersome reality? For example, something about the size and awkwardness of swimming goggles, would someone want to wear it? We need to look for that mean, John pointed out. He himself is not sure that this average will be revealed, although he admits that he cannot adequately assess the situation before working on prototypes.



Let the entertainment applications be good, it is unclear what information to display. In general, Carmack is skeptical of the practical benefits of such solutions. During the podcast, he gave a simple example of a function for augmented reality: automatic zoom at the user's command.

About new VR feedback methods

John sees the potential in rides with virtual reality, where in addition to the audiovisual information through the helmet, visitors get other sensations, for example, streams of hot air or shaking on special platforms. Thus, a powerful immersion in virtuality is achieved. But actually the helmet with headphones, from Carmack’s assessment, recreates a similar experience by 90%.



The retina of the eye contains cones of three colors, so they are easy to “fool” by mixing the intensities of red, blue and green pixels. It won’t work out with a nose. To create a device that reproduces odors for virtual reality, you will need to have them in the container in the variety in which it is required, John recalled. On the other hand, thousands of samples will not be required. Carmack estimated that selling a ticket for a jungle ride to an urban man would require three smells.



Carmack recalled other examples when someone was trying to create feedback from games. Once upon a time, id asked to add support for a vest, which gave tactile feedback when the character received damage. John realized that such a device has a small user base.



But just visualization is useful even in martial arts. Rogan recalled that shadow boxing is one of the most important types of training in boxing.

Why open id games code

id Software did an unusual thing: it opened the code for commercially available video games. The source codes for Wolfenstein 3D, as well as Doom 3, Quake III, and earlier games of both series are available under a free license. Anyone can familiarize themselves with it and modify it.



John said that this decision was not without a fight. On the one hand, there were programmers who knew the hacker culture and the benefits of such an action for the community. On the other hand, business managers and artists who did not understand why give the competitors source codes.



id started releasing code shortly after the Doom release. Carmack told how he positively accepted the Wolfenstein 3D modifications: enthusiasts, in fact, cracked the self-written compression system, created and added their own content. Therefore, Doom could be changed with WAD and PWAD files, and id itself opened the code of its own map editor for the game and showed how to do it yourself.



Mods were able to change the rules of the gameplay Quake. Gradually, new game modes appeared - capturing the flag (which has become a genre in many modern multiplayer shooters), Team Fortress (has grown into a separate game) and others. But this was not enough for Karmak. Why not give the community everything to the drop?



John described the arguments he presented in defense of publishing the source. He mentioned modders, he suggested opening the code of the games of the previous generation after the release of a new one - so they will be interesting for players longer. At first, this venture was perceived as a kind of personal quirk of Carmack, but time has shown that he is right. Years later, one of John's early business partners admitted that the decision was the right one.



Today Doom is trying to run on any device with a fairly powerful processor and screen. Carmack is proud of the competitive portability of the game and its perpetuation: "In a century, someone will find the source code and run it in some emulator."



Games code needs to be opened, if only because it increases the ease of operation of moderators and third-party companies. If someone today wants to create an unusual gaming device, he will not have to convince the skeptical Carmack to add device support to the software product. Those who wish can independently add what is needed - the code of the games of previous generations is open, John recalled.

About processing in the gaming industry

Although some believe that Carmack is a machine that runs 18 hours a day, this does not happen. He himself found the optimal load for himself - 13 hours a day. Above this number, performance drops.



And this taking into account the fact that John changes the load: he does not “hammer” one task, but changes them. In addition, in a large Facebook-level organization, programming itself takes only about 50% of the time. Carmack likes to work 60 hours a week. If in a week he did not work at least 50, he feels like a bummer.



Sometimes John programs alone. He literally runs away to another state for a week and somewhere in the hotel writes a code, almost completely disconnected from the Internet - after all, no one can get it there.



Carmack does not undertake management work. To increase their own productivity, programmers switch to higher programming languages, and then even begin to work with other people. John admits that the desire to just create interesting things is selfish in itself - he just likes to work on his own and not lead others. In addition, over the years of leadership of other people, you can lose your former technical grip.



Carmack admitted that at least once a year he is a participant in a dispute about processing . Gamedev is a heavy industry, it attracts talented professionals who are sincerely passionate about their work. In game development, salary sizes are not so high, but the load on the clock is much higher than in any giant of the Facebook level. Some criticize or even despise this aspect of gamedev.



The law of supply and demand naturally determines what should happen, John said. If many people have such a strong desire to create games, then they don’t have to pay so much. And this is not so bad, because such products appear that otherwise would not have arisen.



Carmack knows that he does not have the experience to talk about this: he did not have experience in large gaming companies of the EA level. He cannot know how correct some criticism is. But if the employees of such companies choose this path for themselves, this is their choice, says John. He does not agree with the arguments about the toxic culture of companies, he believes in the free will of people.



In id, no one was forced to work overtime, Carmack recalled. For example, Michael Abrash moved to the company from Microsoft, he had a wife and daughter, and everyone was pleased that he worked on a relatively adequate schedule. No one asked him to stay after midnight. It is unlikely that anyone will fire a person who benefits in eight hours, John said.

About Artificial Intelligence

Carmack is personally acquainted with the researchers of Neuralink, a project that, as the company’s founder Elon Musk conceived, should help us against AI by increasing the exchange rate between our brains and computers. During the discussion of the company's projects, he said that he expects the emergence of strong artificial intelligence in a decade.



Carmack is a materialist; he is sure that 85 billion neurons of the brain will someday be possible to simulate, although it is unlikely that they all will have to be simulated.

Why the end of Moore's law is interesting

Carmack brought an interesting fact. Today, to perform a single-threaded task in the shortest possible time, you don’t need to try to invest in a supercomputer - the best thing is the overclocked gaming PC. Previously, the opposite was true: you had to spend millions to buy the best affordable system.



A separate mention in the words of Carmack deserved an assessment of the final performance that we can achieve in mobile systems - because Oculus Quest is based on smartphone technology. It's amazing how powerful ordinary cell phones have become in recent times. But a powerful gaming computer remains fifty times more productive.



And that advantage will remain, John continued. We are so used to computers becoming faster and faster. This went on for decades, that is, our entire conscious life. But we are approaching the end of such constant growth due to the manifestation of quantum effects with a further decrease in the size of elements on the chip. There may be alternatives to silicon - for example, carbon nanotubes or special error correction algorithms - but you do not have to rely on them. The increase in computer performance will continue in the next decade, but then we can come across a barrier. And a mobile phone will probably never come close in performance to modern gaming computers.



On the one hand, this is obvious. On the other hand, says Carmack, this fact is a little upsetting for a person who could observe a million-fold increase in productivity. A change in developer culture will be required. Previously, id produced such high-tech products that only a small fraction of users could run them on their machines. As a result, players bought new systems, acquired video cards, the industry moved forward.



Now you have to pay attention to performance, because we are approaching the limits of the possible. And Carmack even likes it - he appreciates complex tasks. That is why he has been working on mobile systems at Oculus all this time: for them, it’s especially necessary to optimize the use of resources. To create a beautiful picture on mobile devices, you won’t just be able to upload more performance, as possible on a PC, as generations of game developers are used to.

About sports cars, or why electric cars are better

It is often remembered that in 1997 Carmack gave his first Ferrari to the winner of the Quake Red Annihilation Championship. Then he thought that in the next few years no one could surpass such a prize. A year later, at one of the competitions, the prize for first place was $ 100 thousand, recalls Carmack.





Thresh, His Prize and John Carmack, 1997



It is less well known that this Ferrari 328 GTS was illegal to drive on public roads in Dallas due to numerous modifications - it would not pass exhaust tests. Therefore, the winner drove his prize somewhere on the roads inside the company where he worked. On a podcast, Carmack talked about his love for sports car modifications.



As a young man, Carmack was indifferent to cars; his kingdom was computers. The first he drove the boring Volkswagen Jetta. When he was choosing a second car, he came across a sports MGB relative. John had to fiddle with it for a long time, the car was constantly breaking down. But he liked the process, the very idea that the characteristics could be improved.



Carmack studied cars, developed theory and practice. A success in software enabled him to buy the Miata. This is in some ways a more modern version of British sports cars. Once, at the time of Wolfenstein, a 20-year-old Carmack in a T-shirt and ripped jeans went into a Ferrari salon and asked to be interested in buying him. The choice fell on 328, which won the programmer's beauty.



And already in the cabin, in a conversation with a consultant, John realized that many understand that these cars look faster and more powerful than they really are. He didn’t like it. Attempts to improve the car in local salons also did not lead to anything: everyone in horror refused to take up a luxury car. At best, he was offered to put another exhaust, which in addition to aesthetics could potentially add a couple of horsepower.



John Romero recommended Bob Norwood of Norwood Autocraft. Carmack phoned him and began to tell him that he has 328, that he wants to make her faster. Before he could finish, Norwood said: "We will put turbocharging on it." 328 in the most powerful version reaches about 300 horsepower. Carmack eventually melted the pistons when he reached approximately 500 hp. So car modifications have become a constant hobby for John.



Another example of Carmack’s car is the Ferrari Testarossa, which was equipped with two turbochargers, an intercooler and new engine management systems. After the modifications, the 380-horsepower car gave out 1009 horsepower. Later, its power was lowered to 600-700 hp.



Then there was the Ferarri F40, a car that John did not modify. And today, Carmack drove electric cars. He owned the first Tesla Roadster - the one that was originally sold for $ 100,000 by reservation. At the moment, he prefers the Tesla Model S P100D. Exotic cars are good, but they even have to plan a way: consider where there is enough room for problems with grip, avoid some places due to noise. Tesla not only accelerates faster, but also does not require such attention in operation. John is about to buy the upcoming Roadster 2020, which Tesla wants to produce next year.

How a geek can love martial arts

Carmack was fond of judo and wrestling in high school and even received minor injuries to his knees in the classroom. He was not some kind of talented fighter, but it was still strange to see that the “nerd” is good with martial arts.



This attitude has been preserved. Many were surprised when Carmack tweeted that he would go to the UFC match in Dallas. They were shocked and upset that such a person was interested to watch how people beat and mutilate each other. In the judo club where Carmack practiced, a new boy appeared once. It was obvious that the guy's father wanted him to be able to fight back. When his father found out that Carmack was in front of him, he asked: “What is a person like you doing here?” He could not understand why the big-headed “techie” would want to knead his opponent on sports mats.



Carmack himself partially understands this attitude, but still sees a benefit in martial arts. Even if there is no competitive spirit and desire to win, at least you can understand what opportunities the human body has.



Twenty years after practicing judo as a teenager, John revived his interest. He went to the gym, tried to work out, appreciated the gap between his teenage skills and the skill of adult wrestlers and began to learn movement. Later, his wife gave Carmack Christmas a year of private lessons with the famous master Carlos Machado, and this helped to raise her skills to several levels at once.

Why did Armadillo Aerospace close

It is known that in 2000 John Carmack founded the rocket company Armadillo Aerospace, but in the mid-2010s the company closed. The programmer said that he initially created computer-controlled drones that could take off, hover in the air and land gently due to rocket engines. The scale increased. To participate in the Moon landing contest, Armadillo Aerospace created a rocket weighing almost a ton and tested it in Oklahoma. Then Carmack was especially proud that he had a hand in creating algorithms for this movement.



Progress was possible because the company was ready to build a couple of test prototypes a year, and then destroy them in the process. Creation, destruction, set of experience - this is how John describes the process.



The wife immediately limited Carmack's ventures to the family budget line, so as not to go broke. In one year, due to orders from NASA and the US Air Force, Armadillo Aerospace even had a profit. But the activity still had to be curtailed. John himself knows that such companies have a trap into which they can fall: the founders believe that they are about to change the world, but in reality there are only small government contracts that can be maintained. The state intentionally does this: with small orders, it feeds a lot of small players, who help the country greatly in research.



John decided to invest another year with the condition that he would close the company if he couldn’t reach the border of 100 kilometers above sea level: “Suborbital flight or all.” The Karman line was not reached - it turned out something like 92 kilometers. Although they shot good shots, the goal was not fulfilled. Carmack froze the activities of Armadillo Aerospace and sold the assets to those team members who created their own company after the dismissal.



Work in such a company takes time. If Carmack succeeded in tackling the missiles once more, he would have dealt with this seriously as the only activity. He notes that he is amazed at how Elon Musk manages so many projects. John praised the success of SpaceX.