This interview was included in the anthology of The Playboy Interview: Moguls, which also has talks with Jeff Bezos, Sergey Brin, Larry Page, David Geffen and many others.
Playboy : We survived 1984 - computers did not take over the world, although not everyone can agree with this. It is you, the 29-year-old father of the computer revolution, who is the first to blame for the mass distribution of computers. The boom that happened made you an incredibly rich person - the value of your block of shares reached half a billion dollars, right?
Jobs : When stocks went down, I lost $ 250 million in a year. [ laughs ]
Playboy : Do you find this funny?
Jobs : I will not allow such things to ruin my life. Isn't that funny? You know, the money issue amuses me a lot - he is very interested in everyone, although over the past ten years many more valuable and instructive events have happened to me. He also makes me feel old - for example, when I speak on campus and see the trepidation that makes my millionth fortune in many students.
When I was studying, the sixties ended, and the wave of utilitarianism had not yet arrived. There is no idealism in today's students - in any case, much less than in us. They clearly do not allow actual philosophical problems to distract them from the study of commerce too much. In my time, the wind of the ideals of the sixties has not yet lost its strength, and most of my peers have retained these ideals forever.
Playboy : Interestingly, the computer industry has made millionaires ...
Jobs : Yes, yes, young madmen.
Playboy : We had in mind people like you and Steve Wozniak who worked in the garage ten years ago. Tell us about this revolution that you two started.
Jobs : A century ago, the petrochemical revolution took place. She gave us available energy, in this case, mechanical. She changed the very structure of society. Today's information revolution is also about affordable energy - but already intellectual. Our Macintosh is at an early stage of development - but now it can save you several hours a day by consuming less electricity than a 100-watt lamp. What will the computer be capable of in ten, twenty, fifty years? This revolution will eclipse the petrochemical - and we are at its forefront.
Playboy : Let's take a break and define the computer. How does he work?
Jobs : In fact, computers are very simple. Now we are in a cafe. Imagine that you are able to understand only the most primitive directions, and I need to explain to you how to get to the restroom. I would have to use the most accurate and specific instructions, something like this: “Slide off the bench, moving two meters to the side. Stand up straight. Lift your left leg. Bend your left knee to a horizontal position. Straighten your left leg and move the weight three hundred centimeters forward ”and so on. If you could take such instructions a hundred times faster than any other person in this cafe, you would seem to us a magician. You could run away for a cocktail, put it in front of me and snap your fingers, and I would think that the glass appeared on a click - everything happened so quickly. This is how a computer works. He performs the most primitive tasks - “take this number, add it to this number, insert the result here, check to see if it exceeds that number” - but at a speed, roughly speaking, of a million operations per second. The results obtained seem to us magic.
This is a simple explanation. The point is that many people do not need to understand the computer device. Most people have no idea about the operation of an automatic transmission, but they know how to drive a car. You do not need to study physics and understand the laws of dynamics in order to drive a car. You do not need to understand all this in order to use the Macintosh - but you asked. [ laughs ]
Playboy : You clearly believe that computers will change our privacy, but how do you convince skeptics and opponents of this?
Jobs : The computer is the most amazing device we've ever seen. It can be both a printing tool, a communication center, a super calculator, an organizer, a folder for storing documents, a means of self-expression - you only need the appropriate software and instructions. No other device has the power and versatility of a computer. We do not know how far he can go. Today computers make our lives easier. The tasks that would take away our watches, they perform in a split second. They increase the quality of our lives, taking on a monotonous routine and expanding our capabilities. In the future, they will fulfill more and more of our instructions.
Playboy : What are some specific reasons for buying a computer? One of your colleagues recently said: “We gave people computers, but did not explain what to do with them. It’s easier for me to balance the balance manually than on the computer. ” Why would a person buy a computer?
Jobs : Different people have different reasons. The simplest example is enterprises. With a computer, you can draw up documents much faster and much better, the productivity of office workers is growing in many ways. A computer frees people from much of the routine work and allows them to turn on creativity. Remember, a computer is a tool. Tools help us work better.
In terms of education, computers are the first invention since the time of the book that interacts with a person tirelessly and without judgment. Socrates education is no longer available, and computers can make a breakthrough in the educational process with the support of competent teachers. Computers are already in most schools.
Playboy : These arguments are appropriate for businesses and educational institutions, but what about home?
Jobs : At this stage, this market exists, rather, in our imagination than in reality. The main reasons for buying a computer today are if you want to take part of the work home or put a tutorial for yourself or your children. If none of these reasons fits, then the only remaining option is a desire to develop computer literacy. You see that something is happening, but you don’t quite understand what exactly, and you want to learn new things. Soon everything will change, and computers will become an integral part of our home life.
Playboy : What exactly will change?
Jobs : Most people will seek to purchase a home computer in order to be able to connect to the nationwide communications network. We are in the early stages of an incredible breakthrough, comparable in scale to the spread of the telephone.
Playboy : What kind of breakthrough are you talking about?
Jobs : I can only speculate. In our sphere we see a lot of new things. We don’t know exactly how it will look, but it will be something huge and wonderful.
Playboy : It turns out that you offer home computer buyers to shell out three thousand dollars, taking your words on faith?
Jobs : In the future, this will not be an act of trust. The most difficult of the problems facing us is the inability to answer people's questions about specifics. If a hundred years ago someone had asked Alexander Graham Bell how to use the telephone, he would not be able to describe all aspects of how the telephone changed the world. He did not know that with the help of the phone people would find out what was going to the cinema in the evening, order groceries at home, or call relatives on the other side of the globe. At first, in 1844, a public telegraph was introduced, which was an outstanding achievement in the field of communication. Messages arrived from New York to San Francisco in a few hours. There have been proposals to install a telegraph on every desktop in America to increase productivity. But that would not work. The telegraph demanded that people know Morse code, mysterious spells from dots and dashes. Training took about 40 hours. Most people would not have mastered it. Fortunately, in the 1870s, Bell patented a phone that essentially performed the same function, but was more accessible to use. And besides, he allowed not only to convey words, but also to sing.
Playboy : So?
Jobs : He allowed us to fill words with meaning through intonation, and not just simple linguistic means. They say that to increase productivity, you need to put an IBM computer on each desktop. This will not work. Now you need to learn other spells, / qz and the like. A guide to WordStar, the most popular text editor, is 400 pages long. To write a novel, you need to read another novel, which for the majority looks like a detective story. Users will not learn / qz, just as they did not learn Morse code. That's what the Macintosh is - the first “phone" in our industry. And it seems to me that the coolest thing about the Macintosh is that it, like a phone, lets you sing. You do not just convey words, you can print them in different styles, draw and add images, thereby expressing yourself.
Playboy : Is it really remarkable or is it just such a new “trick”? At least one critic called the Macintosh the world's most expensive Etch A Sketch magic screen.
Jobs : This is as remarkable as the telephone that replaced the telegraph. Imagine what you would create in childhood with such an advanced magic screen. But this is only one aspect: with the Macintosh, you can not only increase productivity and creativity, but also communicate more effectively using images and graphics, not just words and numbers.
Playboy : Most computers receive commands by pressing keys, while the Macintosh uses a device called a mouse to do this - a small box that moves around the table to control the cursor on the screen. For those who are used to the keyboard, this is a major change. Why exactly a mouse?
Jobs : If I want to tell you that there is a stain on your shirt, I will not resort to linguistics: "The stain on your shirt is 14 centimeters down from the collar and three centimeters to the left of the button." When I see the stain, I simply point to it: “Here” [ indicates ]. This is the most affordable metaphor. We conducted a lot of tests and studies, which showed that a number of actions, for example, such as “Cut” and “Paste”, thanks to the mouse, it becomes not only easier, but also more efficient.
Playboy : How long has the development of the Macintosh taken?
Jobs : Creating the computer itself took two years. Before that, we worked on the technology behind it for several years. I do not think that I have ever worked on something more intensively than on the Macintosh, but this experience was the best in my life. I think that all my colleagues will say the same. At the end of development, we no longer wanted to release it - we seemed to know that after release it would cease to be ours. When we finally introduced him to the shareholders meeting, everyone in the audience rose from their seats and applauded for five minutes. The most amazing thing I've seen in the front row is the Mac development team. None of us could believe that we had finished it. We all cried.
Playboy : We were warned before the interview: get ready, the best will “handle” you.
Jobs : [ smiles ] My colleagues and I are just enthusiastic about the business.
Playboy : But how can a customer discern the real value of a product behind this enthusiasm, millions of advertising campaigns and your ability to communicate with the press?
Jobs : Advertising campaigns are essential for competitiveness - IBM ads are everywhere. Good PR gives people information, that's all. It’s impossible to deceive people in this business - the products speak for themselves.
Playboy : Apart from popular claims regarding the inefficiency of the Macintosh mouse and black-and-white screen, the most serious accusation against Apple is overpriced goods. Would you like to answer the critics?
Jobs : Our research proves that the mouse allows you to work with data or applications faster than traditional tools. Someday we will have the opportunity to release a relatively inexpensive color screen. As for overstatement, when you start a new product is more expensive than in the future. The more we can produce, the cheaper ...
Playboy : That is the essence of the claim: you attract enthusiasts with premium prices, and then change your strategy and lower prices to attract the rest of the market.
Jobs : That's not true. As soon as we can lower the price, we do it. Indeed, our computers are cheaper than a few years ago or even last year. But the same can be said about IBM. Our goal is to supply computers to tens of millions of people, and the cheaper these computers are, the easier it will be for us to do this. If a Macintosh cost a thousand dollars, I would be happy .
Playboy : What about the people who bought Lisa and Apple III that you released before the Macintosh? They were left with incompatible, outdated products.
Jobs : If you want to put the question this way, then think about those who purchased PC and PCjr from IBM. Speaking about Lisa, some of its technologies are also used in Macintosh - you can run Macintosh programs on Lisa. Lisa for Macintosh as an older brother, and although at first sales were low, today they have skyrocketed. In addition, we still sell more than two thousand Apple III monthly, more than half of them to repeat customers. In general, I want to say that new technologies do not necessarily replace existing ones - they, by definition, make them obsolete. Over time - yes, they will replace them. But this is the same situation as in the case of color TVs, which replaced black and white. Over time, people themselves decided whether or not to invest in new technology.
Playboy : Will Mac become obsolete in a few years?
Jobs : Before the Macintosh, there were two standards — the Apple II and the IBM PC. These standards are similar to rivers that cut through the canyon. Such a process takes years - Apple II "cut through" seven years, IBM PC - four years. Macintosh is the third standard, the third river, which managed to break through the stone in just a few months thanks to the revolutionary nature of the product and the careful marketing of our company. I think that today only two companies are able to do this - Apple and IBM. Maybe this is not very good, but such a process requires titanic efforts, and it seems to me that neither Apple nor IBM will return to it for another three or four years. Perhaps by the end of the eighties something new will appear.
Playboy : Now what?
Jobs : New developments will be aimed at increasing the portability of products, the development of network technologies, the distribution of laser printers and shared databases. Communication capabilities will also be expanded - perhaps by combining a telephone and a personal computer.
To be continued